Voicing Queerness: Minh Ton

MINH
I’m mainly going to focus today on Momo Gardestein from Eiyuden Chronicle, which is a JRPG from Junko Kawano and Yoshitaka Murayama. To quickly summarise: the game is one where you try and collect as many characters as possible because there is war imminent, so you’re trying to build an army of diverse characters. The devs themselves have repeatedly stated that they want to create a very diverse cast.

I play Momo, a character you meet later on in the story. From the offset, this character seems like your bog-standard, slightly sassy Magical Girl – a very common anime trope. After completing her quest, you end up finding out Momo is actually a boy. Which is also a common Japanese trope, but they switch it up through certain choices in the casting and some of the localisation, and the language they choose to use. For the Japanese dub they have a male voice actor; and for the English they chose to cast me, a genderfluid voice actor.

The language really makes the character’s motives for looking like a cute little Magical Girl – when in reality they’re actually a very old powerful sorcerer – all due to “cuteness.” When performing my lines, I actually used the word “cuteness” as a metaphor for just being yourself.

ELIZABETH
Aww, I love that. How did you come to that?

MINH
I think originally, when I’d been booked in for two characters – one of them being a young boy, the other being Momo – I wasn’t given the bios until we got to the session. But right before we wrapped up on most of Mihlu’s lines, I was introduced to Momo as someone who used he/him pronouns, and was actually a very old powerful sorcerer.

But even the bio given to us from the client mainly focused on the kooky way of speaking, as if the character used old fashioned language, more than focusing on that slightly controversial Japanese trope. So I worked with the session director just to build the idea of them really being powerful, and that cuteness is actually another form of power.

ELIZABETH
So, in going with your metaphor, being yourself is a form of power.

MINH
Exactly, yes!

ELIZABETH
That sounds amazing, and like you really had a lot of hands-on influence over the direction of the character.

MINH
It was nice. I really liked bringing my own lived experience to the character, so it was a lot of fun. One of the lines that really stuck out to me was when Momo walks up to the protagonist and whispers: “Cuteness will triumph all.” So what could just be a very silly kind of line, I tried to use in a more empowering way, like: it really doesn’t matter who you are, as long as you have this cuteness, you will always triumph!

What does authenticity mean to you?

MINH
Authenticity means a lot to me. I have an Asian background, so I was always told by my parents – who were also in entertainment roles before emigrating – that you won’t make it very far because you’re Asian in a Western culture. Even then, authenticity was already important to me, because I didn’t see anyone that looked like me in a lot of media.

Growing up, finding myself and my own queerness – paired with my already quite unique voice-print – meant I wanted to chase authenticity wherever I could. I did theatre a lot growing up, but presenting as Asian made it quite… hard. Now that I’m here, doing voice acting, it really doesn’t matter what you look like. At some point, a client will want your sound. Through that, I get to use my own lived experiences to bring these roles to life.

ELIZABETH
Amazing. It’s so real, that what you look like just does not matter. It’s super liberating, I find, having also done a lot of theatre but feeling held back by not fitting what a “lead role” should look like? Visual preconceptions are changing, slowly – like how Bridgerton just had its first fat love interest, which was really moving to me – but even still, I feel a lot more empowered through voice.

MINH
And there’s so many more avenues to explore, especially with ourselves and our identities. It’s a great medium, and it resonates with me a lot.

Have you met your own character in the game(s) you voiced?

MINH
Eiyuden released about two months ago, and I haven’t even reached the part where Momo arrives – because it’s a JRPG, so of course I haven’t! [Laughs]

ELIZABETH
Oh, god, you’re right – so it’s never-ending!

MINH
But I have watched streams of people actually reaching Momo, and reacting to him, and that’s been really cool. A few people have had mixed reactions – obviously it’s quite a tropey character, especially in anime. But those who really like Momo? Really like Momo!

It’s very Marmite, in that sense. But he doesn’t take his ‘most powerful sorcerer’ claim lightly – I have found out that Momo is actually one of the strongest characters in game —

ELIZABETH
As he should be!

MINH
— which is very  funny to me.

ELIZABETH
What was it like for you, just to see him for the first time?

MINH
It was kind of… changing. I honestly did make kind of a soppy Tweet about the whole thing when I announced the role…

Growing up as an Asian boy, who really enjoyed cartoons, but gravitated towards Magical Girls a lot… Pursuing acting, I never thought that I would get to voice a character like that, ever.

It was a really cool moment to live out that childhood dream, and literally see it in front of me. It just makes me hope that I can help pave the way for other little boys and girls that want to voice Magical Girls. Just to know that it can be done, even if you don’t fit the stereotypical voice-print or look.

ELIZABETH
Yeah, absolutely. This was like your Sailor Moon, and there’s now just so many other places you can go to from here. And that’s exciting!

What do you wish would be done more when it comes to creating queer stories in games?

MINH
This might be a controversial take here, but… I would love to see queer characters that challenge you, and open people’s eyes more on the whole spectrum of being queer. A lot of recent queer characters seem a little bit sanitised, where it’s like: they’re queer, but they ‘fit’ a certain type of social norm.

Can I name specifics, or is that too spicy?

ELIZABETH
Please do, by all means. I think the first fault of conversations like this can be being scared to critique, but that’s still a part of why we’re here right now!

MINH
So, certain characters come to mind like Clove from Valorant. While it’s wonderful to have that nonbinary representation, you don’t see a lot of nonbinary characters in popular media that lean more masculine. You see a lot of them that lean more feminine but with a sort of androgynous hairstyle – and I feel those types of characters are a lot more accepted by current society.

ELIZABETH
Oh, I think you’re right. Yeah…

MINH
Though I love Clove – absolutely love them – I do think it was a very safe choice to bring that sort of nonbinary aspect to a game, while not really breaking down as many boundaries.

ELIZABETH
I think because… This might also be controversial, but I think it’s ‘easier’ to pin… transgressive things that aren’t universally accepted, like a nonbinary identity, onto someone that presents as feminine in form. Because women are also seen as a minority, or are otherwise marginalised, in media and especially gaming spaces.

It’s easier for people to pair ‘nonbinary’ with ‘femme-presenting,’ and then change one slight thing about the appearance, because then you’re just mashing two things treated poorly by certain audiences together, so there’s less apparent risk. Because, either way, they’re gonna receive hate from one person or another.

MINH
Completely agree. And I would honestly love to see it challenged more, by audiences and creators themselves. In games especially – because, like you said, statistically a lot of gaming audiences are male or male presenting. Why shouldn’t we have more non-binary characters that lean more toward their physical coding?

Though I will give props where they’re due. I think Overwatch’s nonbinary rep challenged an awful lot more. I hate to compare it with Valorant, but they did release with like a month of each other. [Laughs]

I think Venture is a lot more interesting. I think it’s also interesting how the haters perceived them. Of the people who were purposefully misgendering these characters, Venture got the whole spectrum of he/she/they/it – which speaks to how Blizzard definitely designed them a lot more androgynously.

That might bring on a point where games companies could do a lot more overall when presenting nonbinary or genderqueer characters. A lot of nonbinary or genderqueer people don’t present androgynously; some just choose to present within one of the binaries.

ELIZABETH
What is it about Venture that makes them more interesting to you?

MINH
Just from the core of the games themselves: Valorant is much more of a tactical shooter, that requires every character to fit the same body type, due to hit-boxes being equal —

ELIZABETH
Ohhh, that makes sense! This is news to me, as someone who is not built for shooters, so that’s really interesting just from a design perspective.

MINH
Yeah. So since everyone in Valorant has the same health, the same armour, and every character has to have the same hit-box, they can’t bring out a character’s personality through silhouette. Where they do bring it out is through colours and voice-lines. So Clove has to fit a sort of slender, short frame; but they bring a lot more of their Scottishness through with their voice-lines, which is nice.

Whereas Venture in Overwatch – since there are lots of different classes, and hit-boxes are variable – got to play with silhouette, proportions, etc. They’ve got more of an ‘androgynous’ body-type that’s covered up with a big shapely coat, and they leant in more on the gremlin energy. Both characters have gremlin energy, but Venture gets to show it off more.

ELIZABETH
Awesome. It’s cool to think that the ways we can create and interpret characters can be defined by the way that a game is technically designed, or it can be the other way around. Even just hit-boxes; I knew they existed but never thought about how they were physically applied, or what their impact could be on the model. That’s so sick. What an awesome tangent, thank you for that!

MINH
You’re very welcome! [Laughs]

What on a casting call motivates you to audition for a game?

MINH
I’m a very simple person. I enjoy pretty character art. Mainly because I actually have Aphantasia, so I don’t have a visual imagination; so if you can give me some cool concept art, I can connect to that so much more than just character descriptions.

Another thing that makes me enthusiastic to audition for a project is seeing a very simple phrase, and I’m seeing a lot more studios do this. And it’s in the character description for a non-specific  character saying: “any gender is open to audition” and “any ethnicity is open to audition,” as long as you fit the voice print.

I do like that we’re moving with the right steps to get people who are less seen, less heard, into the spotlight to bring ‘specific’ characters to life. But I still think we’re quite a long way from having a very ‘non-specific’ character, like a generic protagonist, being open to anyone. I’d like it to be that all these lovely voice actors that’re being used for ‘specific’ characters – like specifically biracial, specifically trans, specifically gay – be able to branch out. You’ll just get so much more variety and growth that way, that I think the industry would really benefit from.

What should writers & directors strive to do when representing queerness, or working with queer actors?

MINH
I think, if the writer or director themselves are not queer, they should establish with their voice actors before a session starts that – if a line doesn’t fit or feel like it represents a lived-in queer experience – they all be open to workshopping, and changing things, and taking time to unwrap and develop what is being said.

I truly think it’d improve the quality of queer writing in media, and open up collaborative experiences.

ELIZABETH
Absolutely. Though I’ll say that feeling out the room while you’re in it can feel a lot more open in a live-directed session; but when self-directed, there can be a hesitancy to deviate too much from a script. I think I sometimes fear having to deal with retakes, or ad-libbing too much, because I’m like, “I don’t have the tiiime – I’m already doing pickups for this one guy who said I breathe too much, or the accent dropped, so just say what’s there and give another five takes for variety.” [Laughs]

MINH
Definitely feel that.

ELIZABETH
Having that flexibility to work with a script can be a bit of a power struggle, especially if writers are really attached to their words or vision, but I do agree with you completely – it should  be an easier, more collaborative process. “It takes a village” and all that, because art and games are never just solo undertakings – there will always be a relationship with the viewer, at the very least.

MINH
Exactly. And it’s up to us to open up that relationship, and use gender and identity to tell stories that can reach through and beyond those relationships to create a better understanding of the world we’re working towards.

What are your thoughts on inauthentic casting?

MINH
I sort of have two minds about this. At the end of the day, the client, director or writer ended up choosing you for your voice. I would love it if every queer character was voiced by a queer actor that could bring themselves into the role – that would be amazing!

But, sometimes, you don’t know if someone… might just be closeted. I’ve seen quite a few actors who’ve had to have outed themselves recently, due to the backlash. I wouldn’t wish that on anyone.

So I do get the striving for representation, but I mean… you never know. As long as the performance, the direction, the writing, don’t make the character into a horrible, offensive trope of what queerness is… I think sometimes it can be okay just to move on from the situation. You need to protect your peace, sometimes.

The industry is a business, and I understand there’s things like deadlines, budget, localisation, censorship on international releases, stakeholders, agendas, not enough outreach on auditions, differences in mic quality, actor availability… I mean, you can cast exactly who you wanted, and tick all the criteria for authenticity, and maybe they’ll just drop out last minute and you have to get a second choice who isn’t actually queer.

Shit happens. Does that mean you then just cancel everything, and never make the game? I don’t know. Maybe that’s just bigger than me, but it is something worth thinking about – whatever kind of project you yourself are creating.

Do you have a favourite moment from working on a queer game?

MINH
Since Momo is on the mind, I think my favourite experience came about – spoiler alert – at the end of the game. I do actually think this is something of a wobbly mechanic, but essentially the character that you speak to most at your home base, right before the final battle, will give you a heart-to-heart moment on the balcony. And there’s a five hour video documenting every single one, because there’s something like 120 characters it could possibly be, which is mad…

ELIZABETH
Oh, wow…

MINH
So, whoever did that, you are amazing and voice actors love you for having that resource out there for our resume clips! [Laughs]

ELIZABETH
God, their PC must be on fire after rendering all that!

MINH
Oh, absolutely! But Momo’s final conversation was very lovely, and I loved recording that and finding the nuances in there. Because it’s both silly, over-the-top anime antics of, “We’ll win because we’re cute!” and also more serious reflection from Momo about always being there to help people, but people have always used them, so Momo constantly has his guard up.

I think just working with the amazing direction at PitStop, to bring out that balance between keeping the protagonist’s spirits up and revealing real vulnerability, was really amazing to have. And I really, really enjoyed my performance, which I love being able to say.

Lastly, is there anything you want to say to your fellow queer voice actors this Pride Month?

MINH
Whether you’re out or not, enjoy yourself. This is our month! Please remember that.

And whether you are a voice actor, or an actor just in general, know that it is a very competitive market! And though you may think you’re a perfect fit for a character, you never know what factors have been taken into consideration for casting them, so please don’t get discouraged if you don’t win every time! It’s a long ride for all of us!

So just remember that you might not be the best fit for a project that you want, but there is  a project out there that is perfect for you, that wants you – because you are unique!