Voicing Queerness: Max Herzfeld

What does authenticity mean to you?

MAX
Authenticity is being able to bring one’s personal experience to the expression of a character. As actors, we often deal with imagined circumstances, and making that believable so heavily depends on how we are able to express ourselves  honestly in those circumstances. Authenticity comes into play by letting us have more honest expression to draw from, and having to imagine or pretend less.

Have you met your own character in the game(s) you voiced?

MAX
As a player? Ooh… That’s a really interesting question, because initially I interpreted that as being, “Do you know real people in your life, who you’ve met, who feel like this characters?”

ELIZABETH
Oh, we can absolutely go down that route as well!

MAX
Well, to answer that first intention, as a player… I actually haven’t yet, not really. The characters that I do play are in games that’re still being developed, or not fully released.

ELIZABETH
Yep, that’s the agony of it. [Laughs] Part of me knew going into this that that question could very easily just be a no-go for some of us, but I’m always so curious about it.

MAX
No, that’s completely fair! I will say that when I auditioned for Hugo in Of Sense and Soul, I did play the demo – that was already released, but didn’t have voices. It’s since been republished with voices, while we await completion of the full game.

ELIZABETH
Woah, that must be so surreal…

MAX
Yeah. To play the game before even getting cast; that introduction to the character, getting to see the story play out, and all the circumstances going into the audition lines, was so helpful. Similarly, playing the demo and feeling like I know this character – I’ve met this character, this character is me – and how meaningful that was to see was… a really unique kind of interaction.

ELIZABETH
I imagine it would be. Wow. Y’know I’ve actually never seen that, playing a demo before casting. From my experience (at least), in the indie sphere, calls are often casting for the demo that will then  be the Kickstarter, before the full game gets announced. Doing it in that order must be really lovely, just to ground yourself in a more tangible audition space.

MAX
Absolutely, that’s exactly how it felt. Having that added context and understanding of the character really helped support me bringing myself to the audition. And I’m grateful for that.

What do you wish would be done more when it comes to creating queer stories in games?

MAX
Being gay doesn’t have to be a big deal. I want opportunities to see characters that are having these heroic, magical, epic adventures that just happen to be gay, instead of this big, “Oh, man, this is a gay story because this character is gay!” No. This is a hero. This is a villain. This is a complicated character and this is a part of them.

I think what’s really great about videogames specifically, as a medium that opens itself up to this, is the customisation aspect. Where giving players the opportunity to bring themselves to the story, so the focus is the story. Letting players select the voice of their main character, or the way they look, their gender, and then letting the world around them stay just as luscious and beautiful and rich. It’s subtle, and maybe what you expect of a gaming experience these days, but it’s compelling to me.

Having more big games embrace queer identity too. So often queerness gets swept under the rug in the interest of ‘universality’ and ‘relatability.’ Meaning to be relatable to a wider audience we have to limit diversity?

ELIZABETH
It’s almost like the enjoyment of an experience becomes subjective, in a sense, as soon as there’s minority representation there. But it’s suddenly objectively good and anyone can attach to it if it’s a story following, say, a straight white character and not a queer Asian woman.

MAX
Right.

ELIZABETH
Suddenly it stops being “a game about this,” it’s “a game about this but woke.”

MAX
Or it’s suddenly not mainstream, like it’s intentionally alternative. It’s like… No…?

I’m also a fan of musical theatre, and what comes to mind for me about this is Fiddler on the Roof, which centres on a Jewish family in Russia. It’s talked about as too niche, too closed off; what makes it a relatable story? And it’s one of the biggest musicals in musical history. Because the story itself isn’t about the circumstance, it’s the concepts and the feeling within the circumstance.

The central theme is: “how do you deal with change?” And that’s something everybody relates to. Dealing with tradition, the way you were raised, how your children turn that on its head. Family is something we all have, even though it is not one thing.

And I think that’s a really exciting thing for games, and for stories that have yet to be told. It opens things up so much to creative storytelling, and to focusing on what’s important – what’s universal underneath those things. It’s creating opportunities for people to bring themselves to stories without filtering themselves through commercially accessible markers. But it is hard, because the world is not yet equal or even fair.

ELIZABETH
But we soldier on.

MAX
We do, we have to. Even what you’re doing with these interviews – and what little things people do to make voices be heard, to create opportunities to share authenticity and our truths – those are the important parts of storytelling. Gaming and voice acting; it’s all storytelling.

ELIZABETH
That’s why I love it so much. Stories matter to me so much because they’re how we create community and connection. That’s also why games are such a brilliant way of doing that – they’re tactile stories, that you yourself forge through actions. Even if they’re linear steps within a linear story, you’re still the one that’s making it happen, and I think voice and voice actors play such a huge part of that. These days, games are only getting bigger and there’s more and more characters that need voices, so it’s so important they come from all walks of life. Fortunately I do think a lot of the industry are stepping up to that, and it’s only going to get better, I think.

MAX
I think so too. I really do.

What on a casting call motivates you to audition for a game?

MAX
What first comes to mind is if I feel like I know the character. How vivid the character feels, and how real they feel to me, is a big part of thinking I can bring something to the character. When I know what I want them to be, or I know I have something in me that resonates with this.

ELIZABETH
I feel that. It’s motivating to know when there’s real thought behind the lines, and then wanting to explore why they’re presented like this in their sides and description. It’s sorta reverse-dramaturgy, in a way… If something really hooks you like that, it can definitely alleviate that sometimes common element of flinging yourself at the window to see if the director will let you inside.

MAX
Yeah, definitely. Auditioning can for sure be a lot like trying to squeeze through a keyhole to get through the door. Isn’t that just it, though? We are all keys, and auditions are just doors. And you try your key and either it fits or it doesn’t.

ELIZABETH
What?! Your metaphor’s so much better than mine! [Laughs]

MAX
[Laughs] That’s our new USP; you’re just a reaaaaal shiny key, gonna slide on into that keyhole there…

But to take it a bit further: a mushy key isn’t gonna unlock any doors. Being solid with who you are, and what your acting choices are as the character, that’s your first step in seeing if you fit. And you might not. But there’s always other doors, and at some point that knowing yourself, your choices, that authenticity is going to open them.

What should writers & directors strive to do when representing queerness, or working with queer actors?

MAX
As a gay, male-presenting artist, with a Caucasian complexion, I get so excited when I see a casting call that does not yet have the physical traits listed. Like what we talked about earlier, where story is key: if there was the basis of a story but the specifications for the character weren’t given – or were left open – until after casting, that would encourage a lot more people to try their hand.

The process could be a lot more collaborative, and could even reflect back into development beyond just voice. If the voice comes earlier in the process, that can help shape how the character’s physically portrayed, potentially. I know that can’t always be done – making games takes years and years and years!

ELIZABETH
Ohhh, yes… Especially with the whole writing process, and all the art assets, and maybe there’s animations, and this and that and whatever. You could potentially be stringing an actor along for ages till they even get a script, and then maybe there’s rewrites and pickups, and the list goes on…

MAX
Yeah. I mean, logistically, I know it’s probably very difficult. But something in my vision of a future has it that the casting process could be part of the early stages of development – where the diversity of the cast becomes woven into the development of the characters.

ELIZABETH
Their backbone, almost.

MAX
Exactly. Letting that guide the storytelling – finding those unique, organic connections. Again, not necessarily a practical thing, but what a beautiful opportunity that might be.

ELIZABETH
I think that’d be a really interesting project to work on. Logistically, yes, but also holistically. To see how that creative collaboration would come alive, and how it would manifest in the processes that that would create. I would love to see a game like that, like a visual-novel or dating sim perhaps, where the lives and traits of its characters come about from having voices together in a space and seeing what they shape through just talking.

Damn… you wanna make that happen, mate?

MAX
Oh, absolutely! [Laughs] I think it’d be fascinating to take the reins away from writers and directors for the foundation of a thing. Just have an open call, without knowing how xyz is going to look, or even be, and have that freedom to say: “Hey, we actually have the voice of this amazing woman, and these two gay men, and a nonbinary kid who’s also Black, and we want to make a story around them.”

It can open things up to so much originality and spontaneity, which would be nice to see. The industry already moves quite slowly – as we said, games take time – so why not take a little longer to experiment with a new approach?

ELIZABETH
For sure, that originality I would love to see. Lately, there’s a craving for originality – especially in movies, where it’s seemingly endless sequels no-one asked for – but it’s never really to do with form. Having dialogue shape that – especially with voice literally not having a form of its own – would be amazing. Have that be the way we start to… know a character.

MAX
A unique challenge, definitely. But it is  hard to know people. So that’s what voice actors do, is make ourselves transparent – as you say, without form – in order to create that connection with a player, and to tell histories and truths. I think I like to say, sometimes, that the mic is like a mirror. It doesn’t lie, or hide anything. And it shouldn’t.

What are your thoughts on inauthentic casting?

MAX
When it comes to casting, there’s more choices to make than just: “who did the best?” I think the best voice for a character isn’t just about the best sound for a character. We just got into how a voice is transparent, a voice is intimate, and who a person is – their life experience, their truth – is so vital to an acting performance. I’d like to believe that the best voice for a character, and the one who gets cast, will always involve the honest expression of an actor who shares a truth with a character. And that truth might not always be about sexuality, or gender, or race. It depends on how integral those things are to the story.

This is a surprising answer to me, because I don’t think I’ve ever had this thought before. But if it’s a queer romance, I – as a consumer of the game – would like to know that the actors are honestly queer. As a queer person, I’d like to see not just the representation as a character that I’m seeing, contained in the story, but I would like that to be told from the perspective of a performer who has lived and shared experience.

Though to say that that’s required would also be counter to what we talked about initially, about how universal themes can be. Maybe this is more of a future thing, but when people can just be people, these issues won’t matter. Everyone’s a tapestry – or a key – and being queer is part of the expression of reflecting that character.

As we continue to relax our control on traditional patterns of gender performance in our actual lives, it opens up to more authentic casting in fiction. Maybe, eventually, a question of this kind might become irrelevant. Who knows?

Do you have a favourite moment from working on a queer game?

MAX
So many moments. One in particular is a very special and unique experience that I had with Hugo Brooks, because I had the opportunity to lend my voice to a self-contained epilogue that was made for a game jam. It’s called Of Sense and Soul: Confluence. And it’s just my character writing in his journal, musing on the journey he’s gone on, and where he’s ended up. It was such a beautiful unfolding of self-acceptance, and looking back at oneself and realising that you were closed and you have bloomed.

What made it especially personal for me was that it was right around the time my grandmother passed away, and there were phrases where I found myself genuinely starting to cry while recording. And this was a self-directed session. There was just such a strong theme in the monologue of how to live life fully, when you wake up and see your own life passing by and cherishing it in the moment, and that – for me – is such a personal knot that ties into my being gay, and my queerness.

Something I still struggle with, just as a human being, is feeling like I can be. Looking back on my own life, Hugo feels like me before I came out. What’s unique about Of Sense and Soul is its focus on slow-burn, where my character doesn’t even know he’s gay but he’s falling in love with who he thinks is his best friend. That slowly dawning on him, that, “This is more than I ever thought I could feel.”

To voice the words of a character who has been through what I’m going through, but to be on the other side of it… To see someone who’s gotten out of the forest into a field of beautiful flowers – that feeling of openness and joy – and knowing that that is possible for me too… To hear that from my own voice is so surreal, and such a blessing, and so important for me as an individual. It makes me so excited to complete Of Sense and Soul, and to see the journey that got this character to the end. Because it is  an interactive experience and there are choices – so not all the players will reach that ending. Sometimes a player might choose to stay closed, and to choose to turn away from that glorious blossoming…

But I don’t think I realised how important that experience was for me. I didn’t know I was gay growing up. It just wasn’t an option I even entertained. The world I grew up in wasn’t bad, I felt safe in my world, but gay marriage wasn’t legal yet.

We talked earlier about what we want to see more of. There’s a lot of ‘coming out’ stories, because those are pivotal moments for gay culture, but there’s so much more after the coming out! For me, I knew what my life was, I had this script: I think I’m straight, I’m gonna go to college, get a girlfriend, I’m gonna get married, and have kids. But my experience when I came out was, “Oh, I have this script, and now I’m in a different play. And my lines don’t fit. What do I do?” So getting to be a voice actor in a game with a character that has been through that same journey, and landed in a place that’s glowing with self-acceptance, is beautiful. And I hope also universal, because everyone deals with self-acceptance on some level.

Lastly, is there anything you want to say to your fellow queer voice actors this Pride Month?

MAX
Well… what comes to mind after the last hour about these intersections of… unique stories, and diversity, universality, and relatability… is X-Men. Because anyone can be a mutant. Anyone can be gay! Anyone can be queer! Anyone of any background, or social status, or experience, can be part of this community. That, in and of itself, means that it can always be true that you belong. You have a place! You are you, and you are valid. And you have a voice that deserves to be heard.